Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Spencer Burnstead's avatar

Haidt’s views are not meaningfully portrayed here. Like most people I’ve seen contend with him, very few wrestle with the collection of data and evidence he has compiled over years. Or with the entire breadth and nuance of his claims. For example, he advocates for more unsupervised play for young people (see the Let Grow initiative), which is surely part of his criticisms of screentime and social media and how that pulls young people away from these activities. You’ve highlighted a few studies that vaguely contradict your own watered-down version of what he says. His position is then reduced to something that is very easy to argue against.

Beyond that, I think the blanket claim of "this is causation" from one piece of data early in the piece would not hold up to scrutiny. I also don’t think you can make the claim that “most scholars don’t think social media has virtually any negative health impacts at all”. Maybe most scholars you agree with.

Also, I don’t understand the leap that is made from the survey data you referenced (survey data in and of itself is incredibly problematic) showing that school and the introduction of common core are the main culprit for youth mental health declines. Also, the 2024 survey you reference is a survey of adults, so I’m not sure why it is being used. And then you said, “if social media was the culprit, we should expect that teenagers started feeling more stressed about (for instance) their appearance or social status. But they didn’t.” How can you confidently say, “they didn’t”, when the study you link to shows that “Sixty-eight percent of teen girls say that some aspect of their appearance is a somewhat or very significant source of stress, compared with 55 percent of teen boys.”

The credibility of your argument is basically diminished by these blanket statements that serve as rhetorical support for a stated claim and give off a false sense of certainty when subjected to scrutiny.

Like, you say, “the children don’t think social media added much stress to their lives; they think the shift has much more to do with the increased rigor of school. Perhaps we should take their opinions seriously.” Which again, is completely contradicted by the survey data you cited. It’s not even apparent that many questions about social media were asked. But one data point from the source you cited says, “39 percent (of teen girls) say that how others perceive them on social media is a significant source of stress (compared with 29 percent of teen boys).”

That is not insignificant!

I taught High School for 4 years. The level of screen time addiction among young people is genuinely relentless. And every single change you recommend was made at the school I taught at. Start time was pushed back an hour, there was a major policy shift around homework, and additional snack breaks were added. What analysis do you have to support the idea that these simplistic changes would have the outsized affects you claim they would have?

You also said, “one consequence of Common Core was that children had to spend much more time doing homework and much less time socializing with their friends.” I mean, are we really drawing a direct causation from this one data point? Homework is the 1:1 cause for less time socializing with friends?

I think there are a lot of legitimate arguments you can make (and are making) about how ineffective and damaging the K-12 system in its current state is to young people. But as a whole, this is pretty incoherent and pitting “school”, broadly speaking, against “social media”, doesn’t make much sense. I'm not even commenting on the validity of banning social media.

Chris Woolfe's avatar

Thanks for sharing this bold analysis! I love to see when people question assumptions using data. I have three kids of my own, 4th - PreK. One anecdote to support your idea is what they said at lunch yesterday (on our 3rd day home from school due to snow) They all commented on how unexpectedly happy they were, like it was a pleasant surprise. My oldest even logged in to brilliant.org and learned things on his own for over an hour. Here are some of my observations

1. The homework hypothesis may have been true for years prior, but no elementary age students in our county get homework at all. Not sure about middle/high grades. (Maybe they've already taken your advice?) My kids go to the only school which gives homework and they also have the highest test scores. (for what it's worth).

2. Would love to see more recess and lunch time. You and Haidt may actually agree on the benefits of unstructured play here. There have been numerous studies on the many benefits of this kinds of child-directed play (where the adults function more as lifeguards at a pool than as teachers leading every activity). This unstructured play with other kids was an abundant feature of our being home with the snow. Also the exercise inherent in outdoor play is highly beneficial, especially for kids with ADHD.

3. I grew up in public school and there was a general consensus among almost everybody that we hated school. Mainly because it was a lot of work, and we'd rather just stay at home and watch TV. So, no surprise there. But also, if school leads to higher depression (or suicide) ... I don't see how somehow altering/minimizing school would help because, at some point, life will be challenging, stressful, depressing. We can't just avoid living and watch TV all day.

4. I agree that doomscrolling / bad content would help explain the negative effects of screen time. In an age of well-funded addictive apps and algorithms, this is sadly the default. Takes a lot of work to use screens in a way that is life-giving. In my effort to observe and parse out these effects, I built LivingRoom for iOS. We connect parents with kids' screen time using occasional screenshots.

5. There's another trend besides Common Core that started around 2012 that would potentially help explain the rise in depression, and that is the corresponding decrease in church attendance during that time. Derek Thompson wrote about this in his April 3, 2024 article in the Atlantic titled "The True Cost of the Churchgoing Bust"

67 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?